Curse

Phades · Jan 25, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

It would have to be like shameful fear adding damage every second that they are poisoned or bleeding, while being cumulative while both exist on the target. Even then, it still doesnt seem worthy of an eliete tag.

Another one to look at would be wild strike:
Wild Strike
5 energy, 4 recharge
Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +5...+17 damage and target foe loses all stances.

That skill just does not make any kind of sense. It recycles faster than any lead off attack, must have 2 concecutive hits to work, does not crit, and makes the target lose 1 stance since stances do not stack. I really do not see the point in this skill existing as it is at all.

Mandy Memory · Jan 25, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

have you seen wild blow (war skill)

it does less and you lose all adren....wind strike is very powerful

Mosgerion · Jan 25, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Hm. Now that I look at it, Wild Strike isn't that great. I got it originally because I assumed it had the "This attack cannot be blocked or evaded" thing of Wild Blow... but apparently not.

I only took Wild Strike to break Distortion and other stances, since they're deadly counters to the combo-based Assasin. Plus, you have to hit with the Lead attack first, which gives you one in four chance of even getting to Wild Strike with most 75% block/miss stances.

If not, then it's a good skill. There are only a few stance breakers in the game, and we definetly need a few more.

Phades · Jan 26, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

have you seen wild blow (war skill)

it does less and you lose all adren....wind strike is very powerful

Im sorry, assasins do not use adrenalin for attack skills, but thank you for playing. They are also more adversly hindered by block/evade than warriors are, due to the way combos work. If i want a combo to land, i will need to remove the stance on the first hit or cause the target to be unable to block or evade. In the case of the latter using wild strike is pointless as you do not need to remove the stance anyway.

Also to quote ensign:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Crits are always max damage * sqrt(2). You have to check the equations. "Four levels higher" is the best way I know of to communicate that without making people's eyes glaze over with sqrt(2)...even if it isn't strictly true because of diminishing returns. Four non-diminished levels higher? I don't know.

Unbuffed, 12 spec dagger crits hit for 33. 16 spec crits hit for 38.

So if you have 15 dagger skill, you are doing approximatly the exact same damage with the bonus damage that you would on a crit. The only way you would do more is if you also happen to crit on the wild strike. I wouldn't count on those odds to come up regularly enough to justify it at all.

Manda Panda · Jan 26, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Im sorry, assasins do not use adrenalin for attack skills, but thank you for playing.

I think that was the point. Wild strike gets more benefits than Wild blow, without the negative of losing adrenaline.

But thank you for playing.

Phades · Jan 26, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manda Panda

I think that was the point. Wild strike gets more benefits than Wild blow, without the negative of losing adrenaline.

But thank you for playing.

If you are using dagger skills, you are not using arenalin skills. If you use wild blow, you require zero weapon spec in any adrenalin building skill or require it to follow a lead off attack and it hits through anything except blindness. No one cares if it wipes out adrenalin from a warrior, because a warrior will not be comparing the two skills together. The discussion is how valid the skill is on its own to a assassin or anyone else. The relevance of it losing adrenalin is exactly zero.

You and mandy have no idea what you are talking about.

Savio · Jan 26, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Thread split from Seeping Wound {E} because it's a valid problem on its own.

To summarize what Phades said:

Wild Blow can be used at any time, whereas Wild Strike must follow a lead attack.
Wild Blow will hit regardless of current stances, while the lead attack has a chance to be blocked/evaded, and Wild Strike also has a chance to be blocked/evaded.
Wild Blow drains all adrenaline, which doesn't matter to an Assassin using Assassin attack skills.
Wild Blow does a critical hit every time, while Wild Strike does +damage.
Wild Blow has no attribute requirement, whereas Wild Strike has a requirement in Dagger Mastery for the +damage.

Honestly, something needs to be changed about this skill, perhaps make it a lead attack. Else there's relatively no point in bringing it over Wild Blow unless there's a ton of new skills in Chapter 2 that I have no idea about, like stacked stances or other lead attacks.

Phades · Jan 27, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Looks like i created more work for Savio, sorry. My tone wasnt all that great either, but the skill does need to get reviewed even if at high level play it might get overlooked.

NatalieD · Jan 27, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Else there's relatively no point in bringing it over Wild Blow unless there's a ton of new skills in Chapter 2 that I have no idea about, like stacked stances or other lead attacks.

Isn't "using a secondary other than warrior" a pretty good reason not to use Wild Blow on an assassin? Granted, between Wild Blow and Frenzy I'm not sure why an assassin would want any other secondary, but that's a separate issue.

LifeInfusion · Jan 27, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Also, you can only have one stance at a time, meaning it is pointless.

So "stances" is a typo or a person writing the skills not knowing the game dynamics unless it is foeS (with an S).

Savio · Jan 27, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Isn't "using a secondary other than warrior" a pretty good reason not to use Wild Blow on an assassin? Granted, between Wild Blow and Frenzy I'm not sure why an assassin would want any other secondary, but that's a separate issue.

Wild Strike is still a lackluster skill. If they're using a 75% block/evade stance (Glad Defense, Escape, Distortion), it's most likely never going to hit (it has a 6.25% chance), which leaves non-75% Warrior stances, non-75% Ranger stances, and non-75% Mesmer stances. Tiger's Fury? Mantra of Resolve? Battle Rage? What stances would be so important as to be worth taking a stance breaker for? I suppose you could ask the same question about Wild Blow, but at least WB is a bit more flexible - no lead attack requirement and cannot be blocked or evaded.

dawnrain · Jan 27, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Here's a different way of looking at the skills...

If you compare Wild Strike to the other 'off-hand' attacks in the Dagger Mastery line, the skill is comparable. The skill has the same damage with a different added effect which may require a set-up skill/condition.

The reason Wild Strike seems underpowered is because it's being compared to a Wild Blow "with no drawback." As the skills stand if you're an assasin and you want a skill focused on ending evasion stances use Wild Blow. If you're an assasin and want a damage skill with the ability to end stances (with the help of a team mate or an additional skill on your skill bar) use Wild Strke.

Phades · Jan 27, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

Here's a different way of looking at the skills...

If you compare Wild Strike to the other 'off-hand' attacks in the Dagger Mastery line, the skill is comparable. The skill has the same damage with a different added effect which may require a set-up skill/condition.

The reason Wild Strike seems underpowered is because it's being compared to a Wild Blow "with no drawback." As the skills stand if you're an assasin and you want a skill focused on ending evasion stances use Wild Blow. If you're an assasin and want a damage skill with the ability to end stances (with the help of a team mate or an additional skill on your skill bar) use Wild Strke.

The problem is with any block/evade condition foils the attempt. A target can have mantra of resolve for instance, while also having guardian, ageis, weapon of warding, etc. If you are looking at 1v1 situations then yeah you can do trade offs and counters like you are suggesting, but realistically you would just as soon bring this instead, if you werent using temple strike.

Fox Fangs
5 energy, 10 recharge
Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. Fox Fangs cannot be "blocked" or "evaded" and strikes for +5...+17 damage if it hits.

Currently there is zero reason to bring wild strike on a dagger user.